AF Assist Beam

Lilutch

Hi,

First, let me say how much I love my Cactus V6II ! I used it a lot with my Fuji XT1 for HSS and the results are amazing.

I just bought a Nissin i60 for Fuji for nightlife/party photography.
Unfortunately, there is no AF assist illuminator working on the flash. The XT1 built-in AF light is good but in very low light conditions (clubs, party, weddings...) it's not enough.

I know the V6 II offers a red AF assist beam. 

Is it possible to use the V6 II on the camera with the flash on top and trigger the AF assist beam.
What camera/flash settings should I put on the V6 II?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Cheers.

Lilutch

Antonio

It depends on the camera.

Fujifilm is one of the few cameras in the market that does not send an AF assist signal to the camera hot shoe. So even if you mount a Fujifilm flash directly on the camera the AF assist light will not turn on.

We are planning to include a manual AF-assist Light on the V6 II.

Stay tuned.

Thank you!

Lilutch

Hi Antonio,

Thanks a lot for the quick reply. So that means for now I'm stuck with that until there is an update for the V6 II? 
It's interesting to know that even a Fuji flash won't make any difference... 

Cheers!

Lilutch

Antonio

Yes, please hang in there for a little bit.
Hopefully we will have the update within the next couple months.

Besides, Fujifilm, Olympus and Sony have also taken out this AF-assit hot shoe signal.

Lilutch

Thanks for working on a solution! You are amazing.
I hope camera brands will realise this is ridiculous...

outsider

Hi Antonio,

I own a Sony A7Rii and have been considering the V6 ii triggers. Currently I'm using the older V6 triggers, but was considering the V6ii units to take advantage of the AF assist light on the receiving units as well as HSS.

1. Am I correct in reading your message correctly in that there will not be any AF assist capabilities with the Sony camera?

2. What will the upgrade that you're talking about bring? Some sort of ability to trigger the AF Assist lights on the Fujifilm and Sony cameras?

Antonio

1. Am I correct in reading your message correctly in that there will not be any AF assist capabilities with the Sony camera?

That's right. There aren't any AF signals from Sony camera hot shoes...
.
.
.

2. What will the upgrade that you're talking about bring? Some sort of ability to trigger the AF Assist lights on the Fujifilm and Sony cameras?

It's more like a manual switch on the V6 II / V6 IIs for the user to turn on / off the AF-assist LED.

FYI the LED will switch off before shutter opens so there won't be any red light showing up in your image.

Thanks!

outsider

Thanks for the description of the AF assist usage.

When can we expect to see this manual AF assist operation feature integrated into the firmware.

Antonio

Thanks for the description of the AF assist usage.

When can we expect to see this manual AF assist operation feature integrated into the firmware.

NOW!

We dropped the new function in the newly released firmware version, 1.1.005.

If your already downloaded 005 on your V6 II, download it again and you shall see it.

Thank you!

oldmanlott

Is the v6 ii compatible with the AF Assist in Panasonic FZ1000?

Antonio

Is the v6 ii compatible with the AF Assist in Panasonic FZ1000?

I don't think the Panasonic FZ1000 sends out any AF-assist signal to its hot shoe. At least my Panasonic GX1 doesn't.

So you will need ot use the AF CON function on the V6 II.

oldmanlott

Hello, I understand on the AF CON comment.

If I use the V6 ii to control other off camera flashes that have AF Assist functionality enabled, how does the V6 ii compile those AF signals to focus the camera?  I'm baffled by that :-(

Class A

@oldmanlott

AF-assist lights are just lights. Using them is as simple as turning a lamp on and off. The only way a camera benefits from AF-assist lights is through the extra illumination on the subject.

Antonio

Hi @oldmanlott,

If I use the V6 ii to control other off camera flashes that have AF Assist functionality enabled, how does the V6 ii compile those AF signals to focus the camera?  I'm baffled by that :-(

Portable flashes with an AF-assist light can only be enabled when it is directly mounted on a camera that sends out a corresponding signal - this is, for now at least, the only method that you "enable" the AF-assist light on your portable flash.

The V6 II detects such signal from the camera (AF-assist light) and turns on the AF-assist lights on all V6 II transceivers. We did not program the V6 II to forward this AF signal to portable flashes mounted on V6 II because despite the lack of a light pattern the V6 II AF-assist LIght is already sufficient for focusing in tough situations.

Do you see a need to use multiple AF-assist lights on your off-camera flash setups? That is, the one on the V6 II, plus the flash's own LED?

Thanks!

oldmanlott

@oldmanlott

AF-assist lights are just lights. Using them is as simple as turning a lamp on and off. The only way a camera benefits from AF-assist lights is through the extra illumination on the subject.

Hello, sorry I was not specific.  My FZ1000 has IR AF Assist function and wondered how the V6 iis would manage other flashes using this IR AF assist method.

Antonio

Sorry but very unlikely.
At the moment, only the V6 II's AF-assist Light is enabled, the AF light on flashes, either IR or typical LED, does not turn on.

outsider

Thanks for the description of the AF assist usage.

When can we expect to see this manual AF assist operation feature integrated into the firmware.

NOW!

We dropped the new function in the newly released firmware version, 1.1.005.

If your already downloaded 005 on your V6 II, download it again and you shall see it.

Thank you!

Got it! Thanks!

1. Is the only way to turn the AF assist light on and off through the menu system? Or is there a physical button that can be mapped to turn the AF assist light on and off?

2. I see in the release notes that the LED will shut off for one second after each shot. Can the time the LED is off be made adjustable? (Either another menu option to adjust the time, or link it to the shutter speed of the camera?) One second is sometimes too long if I want to shoot in continuous drive mode of 5 frames/sec, and be able to maintain focus.

3. What about the V6 IIs? When will that manual AF assist light feature make into that firmware? I just updated to the latest 1.1.002 and there's no sign of it in the menus.

Antonio

... is there a physical button that can be mapped to turn the AF assist light on and off?

We ran out of buttons!
And we certainly do not want to make it difficult for the user to do just to toggle the AF-assist Light on and off.
Any suggestions?

... Can the time the LED is off be made adjustable? (Either another menu option to adjust the time, or link it to the shutter speed of the camera?)

Sure can.... But it will surely make the UI overly complicated?
Adjustable from 1s to 99s?

EDIT: I misread your question.
As long as you keep pressing the shutter button, it's part of the one trigger event, so the AF-assist Light will remain off until 1 second after you release the shutter button.  You will know how it behaves after trying it.

3. What about the V6 IIs? When will that manual AF assist light feature make into that firmware? I just updated to the latest 1.1.002 and there's no sign of it in the menus.

For the Sony version - we are planning to release it alongside with other bug fixes. I just nudged R&D.

Thank you!

outsider

Thank you for the answers Antonio,

I have two suggestions on what buttons to use: (My preference is suggestion 1, but maybe you can implement both suggestions and have them user selectable in the V6II menu?)

Suggestion 1:

Can the V6II detect the when the shutter button on the camera is 1/2 pressed or the AF-ON button on the camera body is pressed? (Even on a Sony A7Rii which is what I'm using?)

If it can, link the the 1/2 press of the shutter button (and/or the pressing of the focus button AF-ON on the camera body) with turning on the AF assist light. 

This method allows the AF Assist light to only come on when I want to focus, and doesn't stay on all the time. When I am not focusing, the V6II AF light doesn't come on and my batteries don't get drained.

This option does not need any extra hardware buttons on the V6II.

Keep the momentary turning off of the AF light when the shutter button is fully presses in order to avoid having the red light in the images.

Suggestion 2.

Use the Test Button/Shutter release button on the front of the V6II as the dedicated button.. 

Since the Test Button/Shutter Release button on the front is rarely used (I personally use that button once a night when setting up and then never press it again) can a secondary function be set up to turn on and off the AF assist light?

Here's how I see it functioning:

In the menu, add a option to switch the function of the Front Button between "Test/Shutter Release" or "AF light on/off"

The front button is a two stage button.

A half press would turn the AF Assist light on only while the button is half presses. Upon release of the 1/2 press, the AF light would go out.

A full press on the front button would cycle between the AF light being turned on and turned off. 

So pushing the button fully once would turn the AF light on, and a subsequent full push would turn it off. This would allow the AF light to be turned on without the user having to hold down a button continuously. 

Keep the momentary turning off of the AF light when the shutter button is fully presses in order to avoid having the red light in the images.

outsider

As for the amount of time the AF light stays off once the shutter button is fully pressed, a range of 1s to 99s I don't think will work.

Here's why:

I need the AF assist light to be on, otherwise I can't focus, and hence can't take an image. That's the whole purpose of the AF Assist light. 

So any amount of time the AF light is off, is time I can't focus and can't take images.

In a perfect world, the V6II would turn on the AF light back on as soon as the image is taken,meaning the V6II would keep the AF light off only for the duration of the shutter opening. 

If the shutter speed is  1/10 of a second, the AF light is off for 1/10 of a second.

If the shutter speed is 1/200 of a second, the AF light is off for 1/200 of a second.

The best option is for the V6II to detect the camera's shutter speed and turn the AF light only for that amount of time. (I suspect the V6II CAN read the camera shutter speed since it needs that info for the HSS function or the rear curtain sync?)

If it can't detect what shutter speed the camera, then the increments I would choose in the menu would be

10sec, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.0sec, 0.5sec, 0.25sec, 0.1sec, 0.05sec.

Another reason to keep the AF light for as short time as possible is for shooting in continuous mode. In continuous shooting mode, the camera adjusts focus between each image taken, and in a dark environment I need the AF light to be turned back on as quickly as possible in between each image to have light and be able to maintain and track moving subjects (like in a wedding in a dark hall). 

Lilutch

Thanks for the description of the AF assist usage.

When can we expect to see this manual AF assist operation feature integrated into the firmware.

NOW!

We dropped the new function in the newly released firmware version, 1.1.005.

If your already downloaded 005 on your V6 II, download it again and you shall see it.

Thank you!

Hi Antonio,

How do you turn on the AF assist light on the V6 II once updated?
I can't find it... Also, I just updated my XT-1 firmware update. So maybe it doesn't work anymore already...

Thanks.

Lilutch

Antonio

Suggestion 1:

Can the V6II detect the when the shutter button on the camera is 1/2 pressed ..

The answer is no, unfortunately.

So I think your Suggestion 2 is a better bet.

I will forward your idea to R&D for further discussions.

Thank you!

Antonio

...The best option is for the V6II to detect the camera's shutter speed and turn the AF light only for that amount of time. (I suspect the V6II CAN read the camera shutter speed since it needs that info for the HSS function or the rear curtain sync?)

That's a great idea, Adrian.

However we cannot execute this idea on the current firmware platform  as we already ran out of space. We will look into this and hopefully we can implement your idea into the AF Continuous Light function.

Thank you!

Class A

... is there a physical button that can be mapped to turn the AF assist light on and off?

We ran out of buttons!

You currently don't use "long press on the dial" yet.

FWIW, I agree with others that the AF-assist light should not be turned OFF when one needs it, but I would also like to point out that it should not be ON, if one does not need it.

The current approach leaves the AF-assist light ON for almost all the time. However, focusing only occurs for small amounts of time. Hence, leaving the AF-assist light on almost all the time is wasteful with respect to battery life and is also unnecessarily distracting to human subjects.

AFAIC, it would be much better, if the AF-assist light were only ON by demand. A long press on the dial could turn the AF-assist light ON and it could turn itself off after a configurable time (e.g., 1s - 10s), or once the V6II detects that the camera is about to take an image.

Antonio

Hey all, I did not forget about this thread.
@outsider @oldmanlott @Lilutch @Class A

Here are some other ideas for a shortcut key to turn on <AF Continuous>.  Let me know what you think!


Method A

On the Main Screen, press and hold the MENU button and the same time full-press the Test Button to turn on <AF Continuous>. Repeat the same button combination to turn it off.


Method B

On the Main Screen, push in the Dial once to turn on <AF Continuous>. Push it again to turn it off.

Note: Method B requires the user to first go into MENU > Preference > Swap Control, and select a third option. Once selected, Quick Step of 1EV nor Zoom cannot be changed easily until choosing the respective option in the Swap Control menu page.

Thanks in advance for your comments.

outsider

Hi @Antonio,

Thank you for the interesting suggestions.

Of the two methods you suggested, my preference would be for Method A only because I don't like giving up functionality of Quick Stet 1EV or Zoom control.

Here's a slight variation on Method A: Long press on the Test button only to trigger the continuous AF light. No need to use the Menu button.

How I would implement this:

When the test button is pressed, one of two things can happen. If the test button is released in less then 2 seconds , then run through the Test Button function which triggers the flash in the typical test fashion. (This means that the test flash fires on button release instead of the current operation which triggers the test flash on button push)

If the test button is held for more then 2 seconds, then turn on or off the continuous AF assist light.

What do you think?

Adrian.

Antonio

Thanks Adrian for your suggestion.

I would have to vote against it because long pressing the Test Button alone right now easily leads to Bulb Mode.

As for adding a third option on the Swap Control, you are already choosing between Quick Step 1EV and Zoom control.  But when shooting in a dim environment maybe these existing two options is not as important?

Hmm..

phate2017

Actually I have tried the AF assist light, but it does not switch of while exposure takes place. It switches off though, but too late. What am I doing wrong?

Antonio

@phate2017 what camera are you using?
Also the camera settings? We will try and replicate it.
Thanks!

phate2017

@Antonio: X-Pro2

Settings usual - let me know what settings you would need to know in detail. Thanks.

Antonio

Thanks and we were able to replicate it! So it's not just you.

R&D team is looking into it as I type.

Seems like a new firmware is needed to fix this...

Thank you for your understanding during this time.